Hello all:
I’m ticked. Very unhappy. I was reading an email from Bobby Ross this afternoon, and saw that someone had labeled the Church of Christ a cult on national television…on CNN, during the Nancy Grace show. I went to the link he provided and read the transcript and saw that a Baptist Minister had indeed called the Church a cult while he was talking about the Winkler murder case.
I remembered seeing something on Travis’
pop up on my aggregator about Nancy Grace, so I went by there and found a good conversation going on about this accusation.
So, I was a little annoyed about this whole thing, but not totally surprised to hear it come out of the mouth of a baptist, as they have a history of not liking us here over in the Restoration Movement. Bob L. Ross (not to be mistaken with Bobby Ross of the Christian Chronicle) has written some nasty things about us, and so has Way of Life, which is a Baptist Fundamentalist publication.
I was just a little annoyed, but not to ticked….until my Father-in-Law called.
My wife grew up in the Assemblies of God churches. Her father was a minister there for many years. He isn’t involved with the ministry anymore, and rarely goes to church, though he still believes and tries hard to walk the path of Christ. We’ve taken him to church with us several times, and he liked it… he especially liked the a capella music, and made the comment on one occasion (not knowing our history, even) how it somewhat reminded him of what the early church must have been like.
So…he called, and asked his daughter about our status as a cult. A friend of his saw the Nancy Grace show and the Baptist minister calling us a cult, and made him a copy of the transcript….
My wife assured him that we aren’t cult members, but now he has a whole bunch of questions that he wants answered. I’m more than happy to answer them for him, and I’m sure that our minister and the elders will be happy to as well…. but it ticks me off…. we seemed to be making progress with him to get him to go back to church on a regular basis…and then this.
It just makes me wonder how many other people out there have been visiting our congregations, and will stop because of some misguided baptist taking a swipe at us.
If anyone would like to tell “Pastor” Tom Rahkula that we aren’t a cult, you can email him.
-Clarke
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March 29th, 2006 at 4:03
As someone converted in an ICOC congregation, “cult” is a sometimes a badge of honor or a misnomer. Sometimes it is earned by (mis)perception.
Whatever the case, do not fret! For a decade ICOC and churches of Christ exchanged brutal verbal jabs, accusations, insinuations and ungodly interaction including use of the “cult” word and sweeping, broad stroked accusations of lukewarmness. But I sense relations are on the mend.
“But in an historic and sometimes tear-filled reunion, more than 1,000 members of both groups met during the ACU lectureship Feb. 23-25. ICOC leaders apologized for authoritarian discipling techniques and “judgmental elitism” that drove members away.” and “Representatives of mainline churches apologized for using the word “cult” as a careless label for the ICOC.” (Tryggestad)
My greater fear is when people confuse the “church of Christ” with the “United Church of Christ”.
Anyway, it is all water off a duck’s back.
_____________________________________________
Works Cited
Tryggestad, Erik. “Apologies, tears highlight ICOC talks in Abilene.” Christian Chronicle 03 2004. 29 Mar 2006
March 29th, 2006 at 6:37
It doesn’t feel very good to be called a cult. When you love God, deeply appreciate what Jesus did on the cross, read your Bible carefully, and try your best to do what it says, and then people call you a cult, it just does not seem fair or right.
Labelling a church a “cult” is an intellectually shallow short cut (ad hominem fallacy) to avoid having to deal with more difficult discusssions such as differences in beliefs. Basically the term “cult” has come to mean a church the speaker does not like. The enemy behind such destructive talk is not a human being, and will not stop doing what he can to harm the church.
Alan
March 29th, 2006 at 8:33
One note: I’m not sure the email you gave is the same guy. Looks like they’re located overseas and their name has a slightly different spelling.
Complaints might be better directed to CNN, since they’re the ones who inexplicably decided to call on a Baptist to “explain” churches of Christ. Guess they couldn’t find the phone number for the church’s headquarters…
March 29th, 2006 at 9:25
Jeff:
You are probably right about not being able to find the number of the Church’s HQ….I could totally see them looking for it….where’s this church based out of??
As far as his email…it’s his. The guy is actually a friend of Nancy Grace…he is a missionary in Finland and is supported by several Baptist Churches here in the states. The transcript spells his name wrong, but it was a RUSH copy.
I did my research.. being a former Private Investigator and all
Ministers are usually very easy to find, even the more prominent ones (authors, televangelists, baptist ministers who say scathing remarks about us on National Television) don’t hide very well. I think it is from their personality trait of needing attention from others. 
-Clarke
March 29th, 2006 at 9:36
Its very unfortuanate that by many, we are viewed as a cult. I have heard it many times myself and have seen it in publications (how many times have you seen Cambellites?). I would love to e-mail him, but quite frankly, I do not want to waste my time getting in a verbal match with someone from another denomination. Its ignorance to call us a cult and if you would just do a little bit of research, he would see that. I will say, however, that we can (and I say that lightly) come across cultish, especially by our more legalistic brethren claiming we are the only true church of Christ and all those in the “denominations” are sinful. I believe that is a cultish attitude and a cultish view. I may offend some with that comment but I have seen way too much damage done by those folks who claim to be the only ones living in the Truth. Its also unfortuante that our name shared history with the Boston Movement during the leadership days of Kip McLean. My 2 cents.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:16
JP - I’m not sure if you’re aware, but two of the four commenters before you and myself were all members of “the Boston Movement during the leadership days of Kip McLean” and (I think) still are in the ICOC. That said, I can certainly understand what you said about your church being a little cultish. We certainly were (more than a little, I guess).
At any rate, Clarke, I can understand how you feel. My parents had a similar reaction when I joined the ICOC back in 1988. What I didn’t know until just a few years ago is that they had researched the church and even consulted a ‘deprogrammer’ about what to do about it. Within the church, we saw those folks as money grubbing scum out to destroy us.
What he told my parents was that they had nothing to worry about. Not because he didn’t think the ICOC was possibly dangerous but because of the strength of the relationship between me and my parents. It’s those who don’t have that relationship that are damaged by ‘cults’.
Anyway, what I’m saying is to fall back on your wife’s relationship with her Dad. Reassure him that he’s important to her (and you), more so than the folks in church. Reassure him on your stand on the Bible as your standard and Jesus being Lord, not the COC. Remind him where your priorities lie.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:19
Just to clarify, when I said “I can certainly understand what you said about your church being a little cultish.” I did n’t meant that I thought that the COC’s were cultish. I meant that I could relate to feeling like one’s own church can be cultish.
Sorry about that.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:31
Hi Clarke, I just left a comment about this on Travis’s Blog. Funny you mentioned the name spelling of Rahkula’s name.
Unfortunately, the IOCC did not, IMHO, do well here in the UK (http://www.tolc.org/). I do not know how, or if, they have made any ‘adjustments’, as they are too far away from where I live to get involved, and sadly I do not trust them enough (from prior experience with them) to recommend them to non-assuming, innocent Brits.
Another COC outside of London is mainly for American expats, and I would not feel comfortable introducing my friends and family to this ‘brand’ either, unfortunately. They are inclusive and argumentative.
At the end of the day, most of the Brits are suspicious of any church imports from the US as it is. They are a bit weary of foreigners coming over here to tell them the best way to ‘do church’. That’s been pretty rich as an exercise here for centuries. But they do respectfully appreciate and engage in awesome, spiritual dialogues.
It’s not all that bleak, though. The Lord is definitely here! We just have NT Wrights instead of Max Lucados
Blessings!
March 29th, 2006 at 11:24
Clarke et al…
FYI…
Here is the link to the transcript:
CNN Transcript.
I agree with Alan. An ad hominem attack is the last resort of an argument without facts.
The transcript has the interviewer comment that the church of Christ “You [RUKALA] make it sound like a cult [by using the word ’sect’.]” Rukala is careful to use “cult-like characteristics” rather than cult. After introducing the word cult, no one bothers to give examples or specifics, only insinuations and generalities. No follow-up questions on those statements are asked.
Sincerely,
Phil Spadaro
March 29th, 2006 at 13:43
Salugod,
I am off to work, so will comment more later. Allow me to say this, I do not think the ICOC is a cult. I was speaking on the standpoint of an outsider looking in and see where they believe we (ICOC/CoC) are a cult. I hope I did not come across as if I felt that way. I know from having friends who used to be a part of the ICoC that during the tenor of Mr. McLean things were not all that good (so they say). Of course I can not speak for all congregations in either the CoC or ICoC
March 29th, 2006 at 15:44
I just read the manuscripts from that show, overall I do not really see a problem with what he is stating, although he DOES NOT speak for a majority of the CoC. He is correct that the CoC was started by Alexander Campbell and he is also correct in stating the views of our patternistic/legalistic brethren. I have always stated that its these ultra-conservative churches and members that cause so much strife and problems within the universal body. I pray that they may come to know Gods grace and drop their self-righteous sectarian spirit. Again, as a member of the CoC, I speak only of the ultra conservative wing of our fellowship
March 29th, 2006 at 17:56
I just saw Rubel Shelly go up against Nancy Grace on her show, defending the church. He did a great job and didn’t back down. She actually stopped talking because he didn’t let her break into what he was saying.
It was good.
-Clarke
March 29th, 2006 at 23:01
After telling someone that I was a member of the COC they asked me if that meant that I was a Mormon!
Now THAT’s confusion.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:12
Hey Clarke,
I also saw Rubel Shelly defending the church last night. Not only that, but even Bob Jones (by telephone) told them that the churches of Christ are a legitimate “denomination”, though he did take the opportunity to misrepresent our teachings on baptism.
NG kept coming after Shelly about the woman’s role. “What about Mary Magdalene? DING DING” (tapping her head) Shelly responds that she was not an apostle… NG tried to discredit the apostles saying that Judas was an apostle… IMO she made a fool of herself. I can’t imagine a thinking person being persuaded that she knew what she was talking about. I didn’t stay around to see if the topic came up again.
Alan
March 30th, 2006 at 6:05
Heh. According to the transcript, she had Deepak Chopra in to comment on it. And, apparently, a Jewish rabbi from a TV show called “Shalom in the Home.” Yeah, there’s your experts. Grace’s angle was pretty obvious from the transcript. As well as the fact her Biblical knowledge apparently begins and ends at THE DAVINCI CODE.
And while Shelly’s far from representative of most in churches of Christ, he looks to have done a fair job walking into a program where the host was obviously going to try to slant everything against him.
March 30th, 2006 at 21:24
JP - No worries, sorry if I came across acusing. It just seemed like a comment one might make not knowing that it directly related to those “in the room”.
March 31st, 2006 at 13:55
[…] Mick Adds: This case has stirred up plenty of emotion with members of my church. Matthew Winkler was a Church of Christ minister, like his father in Nashville, and some of my friends and family are quite familiar with them. Several CoC bloggers are upset with a program on CNN in which the host called our church a “cult.” See Matthew Tapie, Dr. Mark Elrod, Clarke Comments, and Travis Stanley for reactions. A pretty fair and objective background on the Church of Christ is available at Wikipedia. Locally, members of this “cult” include the mayors of two Memphis suburbs, Bartlett and Arlington, and at least a handful of well-known ‘06 candidates for local races. […]
April 1st, 2006 at 11:05
You wonder why max Lucado’s name was not mentioned in the piece on the NG show. Other prominent COC’ers include pro golfer Kenny Perry and Texas Longhorn football coach Mack Brown. The previous poster was correct. For a “good Methodist girl”, Nancy Grace’s bible knowledge is shallow at best.
April 10th, 2006 at 15:53
This hurts us all very deeply to be called a cult, of which we are not. The church of Christ doctrine goes by the inspired word of God, adding nothing and taking nothing away. We sincerely seek to be like Christ as much as humanly possible and to live a life filled with happiness, as much as is possible the way the workd is today… Sincerely, Debbie Clayton
April 10th, 2006 at 15:53
This hurts us all very deeply to be called a cult, of which we are not. The church of Christ doctrine goes by the inspired word of God, adding nothing and taking nothing away. We sincerely seek to be like Christ as much as humanly possible and to live a life filled with happiness, as much as is possible the way the world is today… Sincerely, Debbie Clayton